# NixCon sponsored by military
**URL:** https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626
**Category:** NixCon
**Created:** [September 5, 2023, 8:59am UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626 "2023-09-05T08:59:49Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@joepie91](https://discourse.nixos.org/u/joepie91)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2023, 7:52pm UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626/22 "2023-09-06T19:52:52Z")
> [@claes](#):
>
> What brings people together around Nix and Nixos is their excellence as software products. We haven’t come here because we share political opinions. No one can talk for the Nixos community as one in political terms. I think that is important to keep in mind when looking back at this.
Then please speak for yourself only. I have not just come here “for the tech”. And such a “politically neutral” stance is not actually neutral; it defaults to being in support of the status quo, which unfortunately includes gratuitous murder (as is visible here once again). There is no such thing as a politically neutral stance.
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### Author:  [@claes](https://discourse.nixos.org/u/claes)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2023, 7:56pm UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626/23 "2023-09-06T19:56:14Z")
We don’t agree. I will leave it at that
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### Author:  [@rnhmjoj](https://discourse.nixos.org/u/rnhmjoj)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2023, 8:03pm UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626/24 "2023-09-06T20:03:26Z")
The fact we are disagreeing proves the point the community doesn’t form on the basis of shared political beliefs. Thankfully politics have a very marginal role in accepting patches or approving RFCs, otherwise the process would be hell.
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### Author:  [@fzakaria](https://discourse.nixos.org/u/fzakaria)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2023, 11:45pm UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626/25 "2023-09-06T23:45:33Z")
I’m with you (I think?)
I do agree about not condoning more specificities such as “autonomous killing machines” that are worked on by a very specific company vs. “The military or government is bad and can’t be a sponsor”.
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### Author:  [@nessdoor](https://discourse.nixos.org/u/nessdoor)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 1:06am UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626/26 "2023-09-07T01:06:24Z")
I feel like the opinions surrounding this matter are so strong and polarized that, if we don’t frame the problem correctly, we will end up hurting each other very badly…
I think that the issue to address here is not the ethics of war, whose discussion is really not something that belongs in this forum, but the matter of alignment. Accepting to be sponsored by someone might be perceived, in certain cases, as an expression of endorsement of the actions of that sponsor, especially if that someone is particularly controversial.
I think it’s difficult to rationalize around the appropriateness of aligning with certain organizations and to trace a line between the acceptable and the not acceptable, especially in big and diverse communities like ours seems to be. But I believe it is obvious that certain sponsorships are bound to be questionable and, as in this case, contrary to our stated intent of being a relaxed, welcoming and diverse community.
Let me come up with down-to-earth example. Assume that, one day, the Nix organization gets sponsored by some public European institution, and its logo starts appearing on the list of sponsors at [nixos.org](http://nixos.org). I believe that, even for a user/contributor who has no connection with Europe and may even have some antipathy for the entire continent and the people inhabiting it, the appearance of such a sponsor wouldn’t raise any contempt or particularly strong hateful sentiment toward the Nix community as a whole.
Assume now that Nix Org gets sponsored by Anduril, and the name and its logo starts to be associated with Nix. Surely, someone who’s parent has been killed by an ALTIUS-M loitering munition dropping on them while on combat duty during the invasion of \*\*\*\*\*\* in year 20XX wouldn’t feel particularly welcomed by our community, and could definitely get hurt by the sight of the sponsor’s name alone.
I think the exact difference between the two cases is difficult to put into words, but I hope it can be understood.
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### Author:  [@skade](https://discourse.nixos.org/u/skade)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 8:03am UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626/27 "2023-09-07T08:03:14Z")
How is this example down-to-earth?
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### Author:  [@cmm](https://discourse.nixos.org/u/cmm)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 8:19am UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626/28 "2023-09-07T08:19:54Z")
I find the fact that this organization is adopting any political stances at all that are unrelated to software very sad. Inevitable in the current climate and given the active demographic I guess (a.k.a. “the department of No Matter What Your Deal Is”), but still very sad.
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### Author:  [@AngryAnt](https://discourse.nixos.org/u/AngryAnt)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 8:32am UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626/29 "2023-09-07T08:32:00Z")
Alternatively, NixCon could also opt to go all-in. The Russian military structures are presently _very_ interested in outreach like this. Seems an ideal target for just “apolitically” “extracting money”?
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### Author:  [@mlindner](https://discourse.nixos.org/u/mlindner)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 5:03pm UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626/30 "2023-09-07T17:03:26Z")
For context I’ll add in the statement of said company:
> [@](#):
>
> NixOS just dropped Anduril as a NixCon sponsor only days before the convention for being “associated with the military”, further demanding that Anduril employees in attendance not mention or market their affiliation with Anduril.
>
> This is an outrageous example of censorship in open-source software. Our status as a defense company was not sprung on them. Anduril has been a strong member of the NixOS community for 5+ years, sponsoring efforts like the Nix Documentation Project and CUDA support while open-sourcing important developments of our own like support for various Nvidia devices. This opaque pledge to “do better” clearly violates the NixOS code of conduct.
I think it’s clear NixCon kicked out a company that’s highly beneficial to the community and should reverse this decision.
Edit: Link to the statement: [x.com](https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/1699590452847272044)
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### Author:  [@cdepillabout](https://discourse.nixos.org/u/cdepillabout)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 5:12pm UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626/31 "2023-09-07T17:12:42Z")
@mlindner Could you link to the page where the statement can be found?
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### Author:  [@mlindner](https://discourse.nixos.org/u/mlindner)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 5:23pm UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626/32 "2023-09-07T17:23:59Z")
Sure. Here’s the link: [https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/1699590452847272044](https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/1699590452847272044)
I’ll edit the post to include the link. For clarity Palmer Luckey is one of the founders Anduril and the official Anduril twitter account commonly retweets comments from him.
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### Author:  [@bbigras](https://discourse.nixos.org/u/bbigras)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 5:44pm UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626/33 "2023-09-07T17:44:27Z")
I’m glad they dropped them.
I don’t think nix should be associated, in any way, with the military industrial complex, even less with killer robots.
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### Author:  [@mlindner](https://discourse.nixos.org/u/mlindner)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 6:01pm UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626/34 "2023-09-07T18:01:11Z")
So the fact that Anduril is helping the Ukrainian government defend against the Russian invasion has no bearing for you? And more so was one of the few companies helping the Ukrainian government even before the invasion occurred? Is NixOS’s official position that they favor Russia winning?
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### Author:  [@bbigras](https://discourse.nixos.org/u/bbigras)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 6:23pm UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626/35 "2023-09-07T18:23:05Z")
The lesser of two evils is still evil to me.
I can wish for the Ukraine liberation while still finding it gross that companies like Lockheed Martin and Anduril are making profits and helping spin the perpetual wars wheel.
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### Author:  [@nrdxp](https://discourse.nixos.org/u/nrdxp)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 6:42pm UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626/36 "2023-09-07T18:42:16Z")
I might regret asking, but why are we working off the apparent assumption that “defense == bad”? Or is there some specific thing this particular company has done that can be seen as unambiguously unethical?
Further, is there a list of sponsors somewhere so I can overly scrutinize each one and find some political or social offense that would disqualify them as well? I’m sure I can find at least one that can be seen as “contraversial” on one spectrum or another.
Lastly, if we are going to start making politically motivating decisions, can we decide as a community what our political ideals actually are, instead of remaining shadowy and ambiguous, so that those who disagree can promptly disassociate themselves?
Or are we just going to silently enforce a given political idealogy on the community for as long as it can stand it, until we have successfully driven away any and all detractors? That is the real intent isn’t it? Or was it just a knee jerk, cowardly reaction to complaints?
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### Author:  [@mlindner](https://discourse.nixos.org/u/mlindner)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 6:54pm UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626/37 "2023-09-07T18:54:24Z")
@bbigras So to be clear, you’re claiming that assisting Ukraine with offensive weapons is “the lesser of two evils”? And that assisting Ukraine “spins the perpetual wheel of war”?
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### Author:  [@tgunnoe](https://discourse.nixos.org/u/tgunnoe)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 7:16pm UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626/38 "2023-09-07T19:16:12Z")
> [@mlindner](#):
>
> This is an outrageous example of censorship in open-source software. Our status as a defense company was not sprung on them. Anduril has been a strong member of the NixOS community for 5+ years, sponsoring efforts like the Nix Documentation Project and CUDA support while open-sourcing important developments of our own like support for various Nvidia devices. This opaque pledge to “do better” clearly violates the NixOS code of conduct.
If true, and because this is also the first time anyone here knew of Anduril using/sponsoring nix software; they were using nix in secret. The irony of them _coming out of the closet_ only to be likely removed and forever strongly scrutinized against any future contributions, sponsorships, initiatives to the project; well the proliferation of “make use of but never contribute back” is antithetical to the bazaar / free software development of the nix project.
This isn’t the first time here the Cathedral has smashed entities for their outside views, irrelevant to their large contributions. Is the Cathedral familiar with how this story ends?
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### Author:  [@BriefNCounter](https://discourse.nixos.org/u/BriefNCounter)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 7:16pm UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626/39 "2023-09-07T19:16:41Z")
Maybe we need to fork…there should be a “Nixos for beneficial purposes” community.
If I was Novak Djokovic would I want Anduril on my shirt? probably not
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### Author:  [@AngryAnt](https://discourse.nixos.org/u/AngryAnt)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 7:22pm UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626/40 "2023-09-07T19:22:53Z")
I did already suggest that NixCon might go all in on the strategy - it does not appear to have been seconded yet. The example given was seeking out deals with the Russian military complex, but obviously China would be a lucrative market as well - both from industry related to military and public order.
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### Author:  [@BriefNCounter](https://discourse.nixos.org/u/BriefNCounter)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 7:24pm UTC](https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626/41 "2023-09-07T19:24:57Z")
I think Nixos should avoid politics. Just concentrate on itself. Sure, the big boys will be looking at it, but render unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar. We are not here to be partisan, just to run quality software.
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