Omarchy and NixOS

I don’t know what we as a community are going to do, but personally, as a NixOS maintainer, I will not spend an ounce of effort nor allow an ounce of technical debt into the things I maintain on behalf of the needs of Omarchy. If DHH opens a PR for me to review, the only input I’m going to provide is a rejection. It is my prerogative what I’ll spend my efforts on and DHH is not going to be one of those things.

This is a common refrain that I find pretty frustrating. It’s often said that we should keep politics out of open source because all that matters is whether someone’s work is useful. Or another way of saying it is: Code is code. But that’s not how it works. I would argue that first and foremost, code is people. We only have code because people had a reason to have it. There is no code without the people who motivated it. So this idea that code is valuable for its own sake is nonsense to me. Code is valuable because of the people who care about it.

And people are social. People talk to each other, exchange opinions and perspectives, and they learn whether or not they like each other. Like it or not, a massive part of open source contribution is the social aspect of working with other people to reach consensus on what the best code is. Imagine you’ve had to work with someone reviewing their past 10 PRs, and with each one you found the person a little more grating and a little more problematic. The way they speak, or the tactics they use, or whatever other non-technical quality naturally comes up during collaboration. Eventually your interactions with that person are going to become a lot more hostile, even if only passive aggressively, than they were in the first interaction.

This is people. People are messy. The real work in open source, realistically, is figuring out how to work with them. And sometimes people come along who you are just very certain you cannot work with. Their code doesn’t matter. The person does.

It’s so often about politics because there’s a lot that’s “political” that shouldn’t be. LGBTQ rights are political only because there are enough hateful people to influence the outcomes of elections. Politics should be about resolving reasonable disagreements (even if only by rejecting the notion of the losing vote) about public policy. It is not a reasonable disagreement for people to just reject LGBTQ rights, so that shouldn’t be political; those people should just not see their ideas become policy. But those people vote, and they speak on the news, and they spread toxic ideas. So they make these things political by convincing others of lies and contributing to who’s in power and what they’ll do with that power.

When there are people who reject others’ human rights in a space that is inherently social such as an open source community, it’s no wonder that those people interact negatively with the people around them. People are messy. Maybe they’ll get by posting a couple PRs without any difficult interactions happening, but the longer they stick around, the more certain it is that hostility is going to form between them and the people they don’t like. That is not something to invite into the community just because their code is “useful”. Far more important than any code is the people who care for it. When an obviously hateful person approaches a community, the top priority of that community should be to prevent that person from inflicting that hate upon itself, because the people in that community are the things that matter, not whatever treasure that person brought along with them. Code is not just code. Code is people.

48 Likes

I get your point but on the flip side

Have you never had a frenemy who in your lifetime became a friend. I have.

Or have you never experienced first hand someone in the real world who was adversarial against a group later change their position. I have so rather than protecting and sheltering the community from different perpectives or shuning a person I still see it as not only an opportunity but even better a meeting of minds over nix common ground which when differences are worked through usually bring its own benefits.

But hey I respect the fact as you said it’s your right to nurture/reject any relationship with a contributor in your lifetime.

2 Likes

Well I’m here to write and use FOSS and teach others to do the same. I’ve no interest in becoming Daryl Davis, who is quite ineffective afaict; doing free work for people who’d rather annihilate me sounds downright silly.

7 Likes

Can I suggest some of you read a history book before casually using the word nazi? Using the word so liberally just serves to weaken the word and insult those who died under the oppression of the real nazis.

Omarchy is popular, I won’t use it (I don’t like its workflow) but I can only see it as a positive that it brings more contributors to NixOS. I don’t actually care what someones political opinions are behind the screen, as long as they don’t bring them into the project or try enforce them on others. But that isn’t DHH/Omarchy doing that here.

13 Likes

Have you never had a frenemy who in your lifetime became a friend. I have.

Again with the euphemistic language. We’re not just all fundamentally decent people needlessly disagreeing about petty grievances.

Nazis aren’t our frenemies. These people want me and mine dead.

Or have you never experienced first hand someone in the real world who was adversarial against a group later change their position.

If a Nazi realizes the error of their ways, repents and tries their best to right the wrongs they and their former friends are responsible for, I’ll gladly take it. I’ll eye them with suspicion for the rest of their lives though.

I’ll not waste my effort trying to be nice to Nazis (anymore) for the off chance one of them will be turned by me reasonably and calmly explaining that people other than themselves are humans and deserve to live. It would, if anything, be counterproductive anyway. They see caring as weakness.

I have so rather than protecting and sheltering the community from different perpectives or shuning a person

The “different perspectives” being white supremacy being good, LGBTQ people needing to be eliminated, racism being true and authoritarianism being desirable.

None of us is sheltered from those assholes. That guy and his vibecoded passion project of the week is riding a wave of billionaire funded extreme right wing populism, gets millions of funding, free press and on top of that people like you spreading the good word.

@p1u3o: I read a bunch of them. Have you? Did you understand them?

How about the part about the enablers and bystanders?

12 Likes

Im bowing out of this one as it’s just getting more and more ridiculous and hatefully charged and accusatory of someone which is not how I live my life.

“Let love rule” :heart:

4 Likes

If you could point out where DHH has called for anyone to be eliminated based on their attributes, please could you link it to inform the rest of us.

4 Likes

It’s been linked multiple times atp, just read upthread. It’s odd that your instinct is to defend him instead of everyone else.

If only we had a way to keep out the hateful people from the community :slight_smile:

Your solution seems to be “pretend there’s no problem and it will work itself out”, and I consider that a non-position. By that logic, get rid of all policies and just let people do whatever. It’ll just work out, right?

13 Likes

It seems like the crux of this division is whether this project should be people-first or code-first, with you taking the former side.

I don’t think your perspective scales. In fact, I think the community would need to be made smaller to accommodate that vision

1 Like

“Attack” is a bit strong, I just don’t agree with his approach.

Why’s that? Huge communities can coexist with basic human standards.

5 Likes

Sure NixOS is incredibly more difficult, but also more forgiving.

1 Like

Everyone should do their own research because this info is easy to find, but just one piece of his opinion:

When wolves get out of control, you shoot them. When gypsies take over public spaces, you deport them.

He literally compared the Romani people of Copenhagen to wolves and said they should be exterminated.

12 Likes

Well about that: Premature to have this included like this · omacom/omarchy@f38eb42 · GitHub

2 Likes

It seems like the crux of this division is whether this project should be people-first or code-first

People come first

NixOS doesn’t scale.

8 Likes

If he didn’t mean to compare people to wolves in this dehumanizing way - I’m not aware of any culture where this is considered appropriate - he would’ve apologized and edited the post. But he didn’t.

I think you need to calm down. There’s no need to bring the matter to a personal level

It’s true that the current discussion has nothing to do with the original post. Perhaps a new topic should be created. But I think it’s very important to discuss this because it concerns the NixOS project as a whole.

DHH has absolute control over Omarchy. Therefore, it’s impossible to separate his personal behavior from his project. Someone above said that DHH seems to separate his personal views with his management of Omarchy. I don’t know if this is true, but he could bring his discriminatory beliefs into Omarchy at any moment, and you need to trust him for not doing that. Not to mention that supporting Omarchy is contributing to his influence, whether you want that or not.

21 Likes