Should jonringer get his commit bit back?

[jonringer]

@samueldr

The continued FUD and push at mounting a case for a conspiracy to “silence” people is… a conspiracy theory that holds no water. There is no such conspiracy. There is no “silencing” of “wrong lean”. There is no “agenda”, other than the one being projected.

In a lot of threads, it at least appeared acceptable to tell me to “fuck off”, go elsewhere, or other colorful of saying you’re not welcome. If I did anything remotely similar, I would have been booted significantly faster. Why weren’t some individuals’ behaviors addressed? I don’t know, to the defense of the moderators, you’ll never be fast enough, and the escalation likely already happened when you “arrive on scene”. But it does feel like a double standard when personal attacks aren’t really addressed, upvoted, and seemingly condoned.

@samueldr

There is no “silencing” of “wrong lean”

Certain posts seem to find themselves missing, like my response to raito - current page. It’s not crazy to see a pattern of behavior, jump to a conclusion (e.g. being silenced/erased/canceled), and see the confirmation bias you want to see.

@samueldr

The fact the NixOS organization tacitly (among others, via the marketing team leadership) continues associating with an unmoderated place like the subreddit where you continued creating FUD during your time-out due to disruptive behaviour makes me uneasy.

Well, r/nixos seems pretty tired of all the drama, so it seems to be resolving itself. My post from yesterday was essentially people telling me that I was out-of-line, and the feedback was a contributing factor to me editing my commit request post.

@samueldr

Speaking of, I personally think continuously mounting FUD in public topically-NixOS areas during your time-out should, in itself, have warranted a perma-ban.

Bringing in actions on external platforms would be a slippery slope, people have posted a lot of hate. Not to mention it encourages people to dig through people’s history to find dirt on them.

@samueldr

And now when you come back, you directly go to the conspiracy theories and throw large amount of FUD. Yikes.

My commit bit request just initially stated that I disagreed with the circumstances in which my commit bit was removed. And was more aimed at the “reason for jonringer being suspended” letter (my first time doing so in written form on a NixOS platform) than extrapolating to any type of FUD. I’ll agree that my reddit post was definitely me giving into FUD, after having 4+ people post that I shouldn’t have the commit bit restored and a downvote brigade on my application.

@samueldr

I don’t think I want to participate in a community where the organization isn’t even able to cut off the obviously bad parts.

There’s a lot of people who have dirtied their hands since NixCon EU. It will be hard to find someone who hasn’t thrown a stone.

The people acting in disruptive manner, who when confronted state it’s being done about their world view.

My personal stance has always been some variation of:

• People should have an equal opportunity to participate, regardless of their attributes
• People should be accountable for their actions

These can mean very different things, depending on who you ask to interpret it. Which I think is at the heart of a lot of this miscommunication.

@samueldr

No. Jon, you are someone I do not want to work with. Your behaviour is simply unacceptable in anything remotely close to a workplace, and moreso in a community.

I’m sorry you feel that way, I quite enjoyed working with you. I’ll reserve my right that I’m misunderstood, and in a face to face scenario that we can come to some mutual understanding. Easy to write-off people through text: empathy, compassion, and sincerity have a hard time being conveyed. Especially in this polarized landscape.

@samueldr

If you actually had stopped yourself to technical contributions, like you continuously try to lean on as an excuse, literally none of that would have happened.

The lean on contributions was meant more as a way to show that I’m not some troll or some bad actor. Why would I spend thousands of hours of my life improving nix just to make a social jab? no one would.

Prior to my suspension, I really wanted to be seen as a peer, who may not agree with the way raito and hexa were trying to create a selection sponsorship committee (and it’s implications in community decision making), and I would prefer to have something like an unambiguous policy which could have predictable results in the future. Now I’m fine with just going back to GitHub - NixOS/nixpkgs: Nix Packages collection & NixOS and grinding away again.

@samueldr

You made your bed, now lie in it.

That’s a bit into the victim blaming territory. There was no way to know the magnitude of response, do you think I want to be in this position? No. My happiest time in Nix was pre-RFC98, before any conception of Nix being anything but a “space for hackers, scratching their own itches”.

@samueldr

Or that would be what I would be saying if the community had the ability to moderate appropriately, and wasn’t walking on broken eggshells due to continuous FUD and pressure being mounted by people like the RFC175 pals and external banned individuals.

Exactly this, you’re not attacking my person (other than the insinuation of me being a “bad part” which needs to be cut off). But you seem to be sincere about your viewpoint, and I appreciate the criticism. At the very least it’s some meaningful insight as to why there’s so much “hate” thrown my way.

@samueldr

(Now, that is a conspiracy that exists, and is being done in broad daylight! Hopefully you’re just being swept in by the support coming from there, and not willfully engaging in it. Hi srid!)

Hi srid!

@samueldr

And then, the commit being given back despite what happened mere moments before is what breaks me. I think it should have been a good moment to pause and re-think giving back the commit bit to someone who is well on their way to self-selecting themselves out of the community again.

The commit bit could have also been quietly added back when I was added to the organization, instead I had to manually poke around to ask for it, then asked to make a public appeal for the commit bit back. Creating the preconditions for this thread now.

@paperdigits

By this you mean that you posted to reddit first, then to discourse, then tried to lie about the timeline in hopes that nobody would look? There isn’t any lag in posting to discourse; there may be some lag in posting to reddit.

@jonringer

Discourse should have been a priority, that’s on me. I apologize for acting out of my own fears.

@piegames

Why was a “I got unbanned and would like my commit bit back please” not sufficient?

I would argue that all of the publicity was unneeded, and AFAICT, this is the first precedent of a committer being suspended. So there wasn’t an “already established paradigm” to follow as you’re insinuating. As to why I made the long elaborate history of my contributions? That’s what the template roughly equate to: intro, reason for wanting to be a committer, some prose about your contributions, and a stats section on some quantity of contributions.

@piegames

Can you see how that differs from what you ended up posting, and how the reaction would have been less bad?

I don’t see an issue with me being proud of my contributions, everyone should be proud of the work they do. If you’re referring to my additional commentary about my suspension, yea; and many other people, including reddit, agreed it was over the line. I subsequently removed it.

For me, there still hasn’t really been any “closure” around my suspension. There was no one-on-one moderation discussion, no outreach from a foundation member, no pre-action letter of “this is where you’re behavior is unacceptable”. Just a condescending tone of, “take this time to reflect on your actions”, here’s a very long letter two days AFTER your suspension with the some reasons.

@piegames

Don’t you see how many person-hours are being spent on just managing the fallout of your actions once again, precious time that people could have instead spent on technical work and on making Nixpkgs / NixOS the best package repository and Linux Distribution?

I do see the fallout. I didn’t want any of this to happen. I didn’t:

• Want to make a public plea for the commit bit because there would a non-zero reaction regardless of what I said. But I’m not going to tell domen how he should run the commit request process.
• Expect the magnitude of response about me being unsuspended
• Realize how out of line mentioning my grievances with my suspension was

Fixating on me, and taking turns just prompts me to respond, which further sinks everyone’s time investment.

Going to step away from this discussion, as I don’t think it’s a productive use of anyone’s time; and re-litigation will likely be the only consequence with further discussion.

EDIT: grammar