We are indebted to those who built this up and it is their perfect right to leave if they so wish. We thank them and wish them good luck. I am against demonising legal industries that contribute to the industrial base that we need to protect a civilised society against the growing list of powers that seek to overturn it using violence. The wonderful thing is that they can fork off and not lose their work and we / FOSS is the better for it because then there is more distro choice. Let us just get the best tech in the world going.
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If we cut off everyone who disagree with us, we would end up all alone, possibly cut in half.
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Thanks for everything, Mario! I just recently used a branch of yours to workaround some issue with ollama
May God bless you for all your work and contributions to nixpkgs. Stay steadfast.
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Iām sick and tired of seeing a couple individuals able to continuously and vocally derail and dismiss other contributorās point of view.
Seeing that weāre now at the āfork offā phase, please pray tell, why arenāt those few causing all this ruckus forking out gracefully, if they feel so threatened? Why do they instead continue formenting this much division and trouble?
Most of the people concerned with the current situation and are slowly and silently winding down their contributions. This is the general sentiment Iām aware of. I suspect only a handful will make their exit known.
By now, I think itās been enough for me. Itās clear, observing our valuable contributors going away and those who are pausing their contribution, that this is not just about a divisive point of view. This is rotting away at the pillars of the project. NixOS and Nixpkgs will survive despite all this, but severely diminished.
I can see a couple outcomes here, and I think in most situations NixOS and Nixpkgs will see tumultuous and troubling times.
I am definitely biased, Iāll stop pretending Iām not as biased as I am. The only safe way forward is to cut off the vocal minority at the root of the issue. And that vocal minority is the one making the NixOS community an unsafe place. Itās not an imagined scenario where the imaginary doors are being slowly opened to people making this an unsafe place. People have already been allowed to make this an unsafe place. They are currently attempting to boil the frog. What they forgot, is that the frog jumps out the moment the water is too hot to bear.
Iām not going to publicly list anyone, though I will refer to this message and this whole situation when discussing with the appropriate channels. After all, I am flawed, I donāt want to be wrong and accidentally cause harm to someone.
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I stopped advocating for Nix/NixOS at my workplace and Iām actually glad it didnāt gain much traction yet. Wouldnāt want to be the one who introduced the current shit-show, Iād be embarrassed.
Unfortunately, thereās not a good alternative to Nix/NixOS right now (Guix comes close, but itās not for me) and Iāve already invested a lot of time into this, otherwise Iād also consider jumping ship completely.
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Thereās the rub - I think many folks share that sentiment, but might disagree strongly about who the offending parties are.
All the recent noise certainly doesnāt suggest a consensus, yet those who claim to speak for āthe communityā seem incredibly interested in discrediting anyone with different opinions. (Even the very bland opinion that we in a time of contentious and divisive politics, and that top-down efforts to enforce ideological conformity is bad for Nix - or any other project maintained by a diverse, global community.) Suggestions that people canāt disagree in good faith - they can only be āconcern trollsā or āfomenting divisionā - are similarly disturbing.
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Everyone will have a positive opinion of the Military Industrial Complex (MIC) defending his/her country and values, or at least have a negative opinion on the one menacing his/her country and values.
For a worldwide community like NixOS, that makes any association with a specific side controversial.
Iām personally European and I wish our MIC was stronger against the Russian invasion, but thatās not the point.
I still want Russians to contribute, but I donāt want the Russian army sponsoring NixOS. And Iām sure they wouldnāt like a western army doing the same.
Iām so sad this debate is hurting this community so much.
I wish Anduril could realize that and cease all relation by themselves because it seems impossible to do it from the other side.
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Iām profoundly uncomfortable with the MIC, but I donāt see what negatives taking funding from it bring.
The beauty of open source is harnessing the efforts of everyone, including possibly your worst enemies.
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I donāt plan on quitting the nix community. But I am grateful to @marsam for the work and contributions. I wish that we would have collectively succeeded in figuring out how to be a community together in a way that made you feel welcome and appreciated, instead of compelled to leave. Same for others who have left or are planning to leave. These are heavy times in the world for everyone. Letās try to keep an open heart, treat each other with dignity and respect. Itās not too late even now to do this.
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Itās incredible that Nixpkgs even has contributors like marsam. We just lost a contributor like many projects never get.
This fracture hurts.
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Yeah, the so-called āneutral positionā on MIC sponsorship and lack of elaboration on Eelcoās potential conflict of interests between Nix foundation/DetSys/Likely DetSys and*ril contract has me looking for a way out of depending on Nix and NixOS.
I assume many others are still here and looking for a way out or near their breaking point.
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At this point, I donāt think it matters that some people donāt see a problem with accepting money from a MIC.
At this point, itās just a fact that some people do see a problem.
I donāt think anything good can come from arguing on this, no one will change opinion here, and the debate wonāt go away.
The level at which the discussion should happen now, is whether it is worth it.
Is this money good enough to break the community so much that some top contributors are leaving and others are getting banned?
I think thatās the real and only question now.
And I think the obvious answer is no, by a long shot.
I hope itās clear to Anduril themselves and that they will drop the sponsorship as it is a net negative now.
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It seems to me that the community has some major problems regardless of how this particular issue is resolved.
The question is, what does Nixos stand for, politically?
There is no way to unask that question now, and no way to answer it without splitting the community.
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The monorepo discussion was off-topic, and Iāve split it off into its own topic.
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Well obviously we would not make them leave, and we not disagree with them, they believe they disagree with the remaining people it seems, and even if we did disagree that is no reason to believe that their work is bad and make them leave, but if they do want to go because of a value system disagreement, they serve to increase the ecosystem.
The wonderful thing is that they can fork off and we are the better for it - more distro choice.
Ah, sorry, this sounded a bit like āif they donāt like it, nobody is forcing them to stayā instead of trying to talk about our problems.
Iām not against a fork, but I think it should be in last resort, since if we fork every single time there is the slightest disagreement, we would end up all alone in our own corner and never get anywhere.
And Iām not sure āmore distro choiceā is always better when each one has a lot of work to do, like managing a lot of pull requests like we do. I kinda like the guix vs nixos since both approach are pretty different and the best features could cross-pollinate. 2 almost identical nixos distro sounds a bit like a waste of resource, but maybe there is no other choice.
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