Major Nixpkgs contributor is leaving us:
Almost 18000 commitsā¦ what a loss for the Nix projectā¦
Iām sorry to hear this. Mario was one of the people who signed the open letter opposing MIC sponsorship.
To those who may be alarmed, Iād like to ease your concerns. Iām hopeful that the other signatories will not quit, as I believe we can find a satisfactory resolution.
For more context, please see this thread.
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The real impact of such departures extends beyond immediate contributions; it influences the morale and future engagement of other community members in the project. We donāt yet know how many more might consider leaving yet. This uncertainty can erode the foundation of our community.
The perception that the communityās voice is being ignored can lead to significant repercussions, not just for the project but for the entire ecosystem that depends on it, including companies where their business model is based on Nix technologies!
The foundationās role is to ensure that the community which drives this development feels valued and respected. Open-source projects thrive on collaboration and mutual respect; without these, even the most technically robust projects risk losing their momentum. The ongoing situation should be a wake-up call for the NixOS project to reconsider how it engages with its community. Every individual contributor is a vital resource, and we cannot afford to overlook the impact of their grievances. For NixOS to continue thriving, itās imperative that we strive for transparency, genuine inclusivity and responsiveness.
Top 5 contributors like Mario are invaluable, and their departure sends a strong message about the necessity of being heard and respected.
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Politics aside, Iām wondering what those leaving NixOS are going to do.
Personally, I canāt imagine using any other distribution and if I were to merely stop contributing the stuff I rely upon on a daily basis would fall apart pretty quickly (Iām the only maintainer in many cases).
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Exactly, very well written.
I understand your perspective, Pol.
Itās worth noting that the open letter received 232 signatures. However, 231 contributors have opted to keep contributing to nixpkgs, which makes me optimistic that things will work out.
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Including myself indeed, despite my deep reservations about the recent controversies weāve faced. Itās heartening to see that a substantial number of us remain committed to the project. This shared commitment does give room for optimism.
Like the saying goes āRome wasnāt built in a dayā, change within such a complex ecosystem as Nix takes time and collective effort. Even though many aspects of nixpkgs are automated, itās crucial to remember the human element - the people behind the keyboards - who are just as prone to mistakes as they are capable of forgiveness and growth.
And yes, I remain optimistic, but itās important to acknowledge that sustaining this environment requires balance. If we find ourselves facing similar crises frequently, it could simply dissolve the project to smithereens.
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Leaving is a hard choice for most contributors, because dependencies run both ways. Having people continue contributing doesnāt mean they are content with the outcome, they could also just have a hard dependency on nixpkgs they cannot easily replace.
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Short-term: treat Nixpkgs as a non-friendly upstream, like people treat most of the software upstreams anyway (from time to time Nixpkgs treats Nix itself as a non-perfectly-clueful upstream, after allā¦). Fork out whatever you were maintaining in Nixpkgs, overlays are not that hard (for the level of competence of a significant contributor).
Longer-term, Guix? I find some basic fundamental technical decisions there even more uncomfortable than mistakes of Nixpkgs, and I donāt always find Guix better at making governance decisions, so I stay with Nix/Nixpkgs (but not NixOS, although I do manage my system with Nix ā speaking of overlaying things while using Nixpkgsā¦) But I think some of the people unhappy with Nix* decision-making might be more comfortable with Guix decision-making.
I do keep some stuff that clearly un-upstreamable for various reasons as an overlay, itās mostly fineā¦
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However, 231 contributors have opted to keep contributing to nixpkgs, which makes me optimistic that things will work out.
This is such a binary way of looking at ways to contributeā¦
Sadly: silent quitting is a thing in online communities as well.
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I am a small-time contributor but I am seriously considering moving all my Nix stuff over to Guix, and advocating people / orgs I am associated with to do the same. Itās a shame, because I actually would prefer not to do all thatā¦ but if the Nix community canāt figure things out then I donāt know that there will be much choice. I really wish Nix was a democratically governed free and open-source software project that operated based on a shared set of common values and goals.
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This topic is temporarily closed for at least 4 hours due to a large number of community flags.
This topic was automatically opened after 4 hours.
Evolving from a loose confederation of enthusiasts to a democratically governed project seems to be a normal part of a FOSS projectās āgrowing upā. For what itās worth, this reply encourages me to stop contributing. If saying I wished that Nix āoperated on the basis of shared values and goalsā is too āpoliticalā then maybe this ācommunityā really is too far gone. I donāt know if Jon and I have any shared values or goals in common, and if not, then why bother contributing to this project in which he has been promoted to a position of leadership?
I really canāt believe that my wish that we all contribute based on what we agree upon is taken to be divisive. Itās absurd.
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(post deleted by author)
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If we cut off everyone who disagree with us, we would end up all alone, possibly cut in half.
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Thanks for everything, Mario! I just recently used a branch of yours to workaround some issue with ollama
May God bless you for all your work and contributions to nixpkgs. Stay steadfast.
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Iām sick and tired of seeing a couple individuals able to continuously and vocally derail and dismiss other contributorās point of view.
Seeing that weāre now at the āfork offā phase, please pray tell, why arenāt those few causing all this ruckus forking out gracefully, if they feel so threatened? Why do they instead continue formenting this much division and trouble?
Most of the people concerned with the current situation and are slowly and silently winding down their contributions. This is the general sentiment Iām aware of. I suspect only a handful will make their exit known.
By now, I think itās been enough for me. Itās clear, observing our valuable contributors going away and those who are pausing their contribution, that this is not just about a divisive point of view. This is rotting away at the pillars of the project. NixOS and Nixpkgs will survive despite all this, but severely diminished.
I can see a couple outcomes here, and I think in most situations NixOS and Nixpkgs will see tumultuous and troubling times.
I am definitely biased, Iāll stop pretending Iām not as biased as I am. The only safe way forward is to cut off the vocal minority at the root of the issue. And that vocal minority is the one making the NixOS community an unsafe place. Itās not an imagined scenario where the imaginary doors are being slowly opened to people making this an unsafe place. People have already been allowed to make this an unsafe place. They are currently attempting to boil the frog. What they forgot, is that the frog jumps out the moment the water is too hot to bear.
Iām not going to publicly list anyone, though I will refer to this message and this whole situation when discussing with the appropriate channels. After all, I am flawed, I donāt want to be wrong and accidentally cause harm to someone.
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I stopped advocating for Nix/NixOS at my workplace and Iām actually glad it didnāt gain much traction yet. Wouldnāt want to be the one who introduced the current shit-show, Iād be embarrassed.
Unfortunately, thereās not a good alternative to Nix/NixOS right now (Guix comes close, but itās not for me) and Iāve already invested a lot of time into this, otherwise Iād also consider jumping ship completely.
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